印度網(wǎng)民：印度的GDP給我們一種被夸大了的繁榮感
India’s GDP gives us an inflated sense of prosperity
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
首先，我并非經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家，也不想抱持失敗主義的態(tài)度。
正文翻譯
India’s GDP gives us an inflated sense of prosperity
印度的GDP給我們一種被夸大了的繁榮感
For starters I am not an economist and I don’t want to have a self-defeatist attitude. I genuinely want our nation to prosper. However, when I see Indians brag about India being the 4th largest economy, I can’t help but think whether that actually translates into our relative standard of living compared to other countries. To me, it somewhat seems like priding over having a huge population. Sure, we are able to channel it in a positive direction and our growth story is one to admire but I wonder if we have a long way to go before we compare ourselves to the likes of US, Germany, UK, Japan and even China. Barring China, these countries have been able to generate the same growth with a much smaller population which means their GDP per capita and Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is waaaay higher than India.
When you look at India on that scale (GDP / capita & PPP), we appear to marginally more prosperous than Bangladesh and below the Philippines. If we hit a 10 trillion economy, we can expect our GDP / capita to start matching Peru, Thailand and Equador. Should we then we be looking at ourselves any differently? Is there a more obxtive way of assessing where we stand? How do global leaders see this comparison?
I am still inspired with the way we’re headed. Would love to hear thoughts from people who would know a lot more about this than I do.
首先，我并非經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家，也不想抱持失敗主義的態(tài)度。我真心期盼我們的國(guó)家能夠繁榮。然而，每當(dāng)我看到印度同胞們吹噓印度已是第四大經(jīng)濟(jì)體時(shí)，我總?cè)滩蛔∷伎?，這是否真正轉(zhuǎn)化為我們相對(duì)于其他國(guó)家的生活水平的提升。在我看來(lái)，這多少有點(diǎn)像僅僅為我們擁有龐大的人口規(guī)模而自豪。
當(dāng)然，我們確實(shí)能夠?qū)⑷丝趦?yōu)勢(shì)導(dǎo)向積極的方面，我們的增長(zhǎng)故事也值得稱(chēng)贊，但我懷疑，在我們能夠與美國(guó)、德國(guó)、英國(guó)、日本乃至中國(guó)這樣的國(guó)家相提并論之前，我們是否還有很長(zhǎng)的路要走。要知道，除了中國(guó)，這些國(guó)家都以遠(yuǎn)少于我們的人口實(shí)現(xiàn)了同等規(guī)模的經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)，這意味著他們的人均GDP和購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)（PPP）要比印度高得多。
當(dāng)我們從人均GDP和購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)的維度來(lái)審視印度時(shí)，我們看起來(lái)僅比孟加拉國(guó)略微富裕一些，甚至還不如菲律賓。如果我們經(jīng)濟(jì)總量能達(dá)到10萬(wàn)億美元，我們的人均GDP預(yù)計(jì)也才開(kāi)始與秘魯、泰國(guó)和厄瓜多爾的水平相當(dāng)。那么，到那時(shí)我們是否應(yīng)該用不同的眼光看待自己呢？有沒(méi)有更客觀的方法來(lái)評(píng)估我們當(dāng)前所處的位置？全球的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者們又是如何看待這種比較的呢？
我依然為我們國(guó)家前進(jìn)的方向感到鼓舞。非常希望能聽(tīng)聽(tīng)那些對(duì)此領(lǐng)域比我了解得多的人們的見(jiàn)解。
印度的GDP給我們一種被夸大了的繁榮感
For starters I am not an economist and I don’t want to have a self-defeatist attitude. I genuinely want our nation to prosper. However, when I see Indians brag about India being the 4th largest economy, I can’t help but think whether that actually translates into our relative standard of living compared to other countries. To me, it somewhat seems like priding over having a huge population. Sure, we are able to channel it in a positive direction and our growth story is one to admire but I wonder if we have a long way to go before we compare ourselves to the likes of US, Germany, UK, Japan and even China. Barring China, these countries have been able to generate the same growth with a much smaller population which means their GDP per capita and Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is waaaay higher than India.
When you look at India on that scale (GDP / capita & PPP), we appear to marginally more prosperous than Bangladesh and below the Philippines. If we hit a 10 trillion economy, we can expect our GDP / capita to start matching Peru, Thailand and Equador. Should we then we be looking at ourselves any differently? Is there a more obxtive way of assessing where we stand? How do global leaders see this comparison?
I am still inspired with the way we’re headed. Would love to hear thoughts from people who would know a lot more about this than I do.
首先，我并非經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家，也不想抱持失敗主義的態(tài)度。我真心期盼我們的國(guó)家能夠繁榮。然而，每當(dāng)我看到印度同胞們吹噓印度已是第四大經(jīng)濟(jì)體時(shí)，我總?cè)滩蛔∷伎?，這是否真正轉(zhuǎn)化為我們相對(duì)于其他國(guó)家的生活水平的提升。在我看來(lái)，這多少有點(diǎn)像僅僅為我們擁有龐大的人口規(guī)模而自豪。
當(dāng)然，我們確實(shí)能夠?qū)⑷丝趦?yōu)勢(shì)導(dǎo)向積極的方面，我們的增長(zhǎng)故事也值得稱(chēng)贊，但我懷疑，在我們能夠與美國(guó)、德國(guó)、英國(guó)、日本乃至中國(guó)這樣的國(guó)家相提并論之前，我們是否還有很長(zhǎng)的路要走。要知道，除了中國(guó)，這些國(guó)家都以遠(yuǎn)少于我們的人口實(shí)現(xiàn)了同等規(guī)模的經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)，這意味著他們的人均GDP和購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)（PPP）要比印度高得多。
當(dāng)我們從人均GDP和購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)的維度來(lái)審視印度時(shí)，我們看起來(lái)僅比孟加拉國(guó)略微富裕一些，甚至還不如菲律賓。如果我們經(jīng)濟(jì)總量能達(dá)到10萬(wàn)億美元，我們的人均GDP預(yù)計(jì)也才開(kāi)始與秘魯、泰國(guó)和厄瓜多爾的水平相當(dāng)。那么，到那時(shí)我們是否應(yīng)該用不同的眼光看待自己呢？有沒(méi)有更客觀的方法來(lái)評(píng)估我們當(dāng)前所處的位置？全球的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者們又是如何看待這種比較的呢？
我依然為我們國(guó)家前進(jìn)的方向感到鼓舞。非常希望能聽(tīng)聽(tīng)那些對(duì)此領(lǐng)域比我了解得多的人們的見(jiàn)解。
評(píng)論翻譯
很贊 ( 12 )
收藏
Likes: 48
i do not know whats there to feel bad about it is known majority of India is poor, but a GDP of 4 trillion for a billion people economy is not at all something hard to digest what we need is to gap in rich and poor
我不知道這有什么好難過(guò)的。眾所周知，印度大多數(shù)人還很貧困，但對(duì)于一個(gè)擁有十億人口的經(jīng)濟(jì)體而言，4萬(wàn)億美元的GDP并非什么難以接受的事實(shí)。我們真正需要的是縮小貧富差距。
vp1593
Likes: 8
You mean for a billion people right? I don’t feel bad. I just think the 4th highest in rankings made me think we were 4th most economically powerful which is a silly way to look at it now so it has been a paradigm shift for me.
你是說(shuō)十億人口，對(duì)吧？我并不難過(guò)。我只是覺(jué)得，排名第四曾讓我以為我們?cè)诮?jīng)濟(jì)實(shí)力上也是第四強(qiáng)，現(xiàn)在看來(lái)這種想法很傻，所以這對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)是一個(gè)觀念上的轉(zhuǎn)變。
csureja
Likes: 17
We actually did, if you look at data it clearly shows we managed to bring people out of severe poverty. There no reason to not to believe it won't get better as economy grows.
我們確實(shí)做到了。如果你查看數(shù)據(jù)，會(huì)清楚地看到我們成功地幫助了許多人擺脫極端貧困。沒(méi)有理由不相信隨著經(jīng)濟(jì)的增長(zhǎng)，情況不會(huì)進(jìn)一步改善。
rishipdy
Likes: 5
That severe poverty data is from 32 rs a day search for tendulkar 2011 so if you earn more than 32 a day you are out of poverty just tell me is 32 rs a day enough even in villages 500ml of amul gold costs rs 34
那個(gè)極端貧困數(shù)據(jù)是基于每天32盧比的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)（可以查閱Tendulkar委員會(huì)2011年的報(bào)告），所以如果你一天掙超過(guò)32盧比，你就脫貧了。請(qǐng)告訴我，即使在農(nóng)村，一天32盧比夠用嗎？500毫升的Amul Gold牛奶都要34盧比了。
raydialseeker
Likes: 1
Poverty line should be at least 500 per day. 32 is absurd
貧困線至少應(yīng)該是每天500盧比。32盧比太荒謬了。
rishipdy
Likes: 2
500 is too much like most people who are employed but are uneducated in tier 3 city / towns gets about 400 rs a day I think roti kapda makan which are 3 essential would cost about 250-300 a day which should be the poverty line and 32 rs is for severe poverty like for people who don't have home clothes etc it's very weird
每天500盧比可能太多了，像在三線城市/鄉(xiāng)鎮(zhèn)，那些有工作但未受過(guò)教育的人，大多數(shù)一天大約掙400盧比。我認(rèn)為食物、衣服、住所這三項(xiàng)基本需求一天大約花費(fèi)250-300盧比，這應(yīng)該才是貧困線。而每天32盧比的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)是針對(duì)極端貧困的，比如那些沒(méi)有家、沒(méi)有衣服等的人，這標(biāo)準(zhǔn)太奇怪了。
csureja
Likes: 1
I mean thats why it's called a poverty line. Also do you agree that we in last decade made improvements to wages of extreme poverty. I remember there was a time govt was advocating for toilet in home. Now the number has improved by a lot
我的意思是，這就是它被稱(chēng)為“貧困線”的原因。另外，你是否同意在過(guò)去十年中，我們確實(shí)改善了極端貧困人口的收入狀況？我記得曾有一段時(shí)間，政府還在大力倡導(dǎo)家家戶(hù)戶(hù)修建廁所?，F(xiàn)在，這方面的情況已經(jīng)改善了很多。
One-Set8014
Likes: 1
read this
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1kvzejc/comment/muensw4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1kvzejc/comment/muensw4/)
interest payment + defense + subsidies + Tax Devolution to states (which is mandatory and cant be avoid) alone account for more than 100 percent of our budget where will you pay for the rest of budget years to come
we are not growing fast enough watch the earnings call of fmcg, construction, automobile sectors which shows us the optimism toward gdp growth
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcw7xl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcw7xl/)
we mostly depend on i.t (in form of fdi) but now it has slowed due to productivity gains from llms so we are not growing fast enough to i would say afford even more debt at this point
remember we are reducing our fiscal defect to 4 percent (i guess this year)
why are we doing so if we are growing fast ? enough ask yourself.
the answer lies in slow growth.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcuaw9/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcuaw9/)
讀讀這個(gè)：
【鏈接】
單是利息支付 + 國(guó)防開(kāi)支 + 補(bǔ)貼 + 向各邦下放稅收（這是強(qiáng)制性的，無(wú)法避免）就占了我們預(yù)算的100%以上，未來(lái)幾年的預(yù)算缺口從哪里來(lái)補(bǔ)？
我們的增長(zhǎng)速度不夠快，看看快速消費(fèi)品、建筑、汽車(chē)等行業(yè)的財(cái)報(bào)電話會(huì)議，就能看出（缺乏）對(duì)GDP增長(zhǎng)的樂(lè)觀情緒。
我們主要依賴(lài)信息技術(shù)產(chǎn)業(yè)（以外國(guó)直接投資的形式），但現(xiàn)在由于大語(yǔ)言模型帶來(lái)的生產(chǎn)力提升，其增長(zhǎng)已經(jīng)放緩，所以我認(rèn)為我們?cè)鲩L(zhǎng)得不夠快，目前甚至無(wú)法負(fù)擔(dān)更多債務(wù)。
記住，我們正在將財(cái)政赤字削減到4%（我猜是今年）。
如果我們?cè)鲩L(zhǎng)得足夠快，為什么要這樣做呢？捫心自問(wèn)吧。
答案就在于增長(zhǎng)緩慢。
unproblem_
Likes: 25
GDP measures economic activity, not Well-Being or standard of living. Using it to judge standard of living is like judging effectiveness of plumbing by looking at water bill or using your odometer to make a statement about engine health.
GDP衡量的是經(jīng)濟(jì)活動(dòng)，而非福祉或生活水平。用GDP來(lái)評(píng)判生活水平，就好比通過(guò)看水費(fèi)單來(lái)判斷管道系統(tǒng)的效率，或者用汽車(chē)的里程表來(lái)評(píng)價(jià)引擎的健康狀況。
vp1593
Likes: -7
Yeah… don’t you think a lot of us draw this false equivalence when we brag about surpassing Japan in GDP?
是啊……你不覺(jué)得我們很多人在吹噓GDP超過(guò)日本時(shí)，都陷入了這種錯(cuò)誤的等同觀念嗎？
unproblem_
Likes: 16
No. GDP measures something real. How powerful a country is economically in world stage.
For example in 2008, global financial crisis hits. Iceland (high GDP per capita, great standard of living ) gets completely steamrolled and has to beg for bailouts. Meanwhile China (lower per capita, lower standard of living) becomes the global savior pumping $586B into stimulus and literally saves the world economy.
Why? Because when shit hits the fan, countries don't call Norway for help - they call whoever has the biggest checkbook.
It's like being proud of your country's military even though you personally can't fight or don't know any self defense. Individual citizens don't need to be warriors for national defense to matter. Same logic applies here l
不。GDP衡量的是真實(shí)的東西——一個(gè)國(guó)家在世界舞臺(tái)上的經(jīng)濟(jì)實(shí)力。
例如2008年，全球金融危機(jī)來(lái)襲。冰島（人均GDP高，生活水平優(yōu)越）完全被打垮，不得不乞求援助。與此同時(shí)，中國(guó)（人均GDP較低，生活水平較低）卻成了全球救星，注入5860億美元刺激經(jīng)濟(jì)，可以說(shuō)拯救了世界經(jīng)濟(jì)。
為什么？因?yàn)楫?dāng)危機(jī)爆發(fā)時(shí)，各國(guó)不會(huì)向挪威求助——他們會(huì)找那個(gè)錢(qián)袋子最鼓的國(guó)家。
這就像為自己國(guó)家的軍事力量感到自豪，即使你個(gè)人不會(huì)戰(zhàn)斗，也不懂任何自衛(wèi)術(shù)。國(guó)防的重要性并不需要每個(gè)公民都成為戰(zhàn)士。同樣的邏輯也適用于此。
vp1593
Likes: 5
Thank you for explaining this and for that great analogy. Basically being rich / person and being a powerful economy are 2 different things!
謝謝你的解釋和那個(gè)精彩的比喻。基本上，個(gè)人富有和國(guó)家經(jīng)濟(jì)強(qiáng)大是兩碼事！
One-Set8014
Likes: 2
u are right and wrong.
look at usa debt to gdp is very high so they cannt do much now they are pulling out forign aid
now we pay about 37 percent of recipts in budget as debts alone
interset payment + defence + subsidies + Tax Devolution to states (which is mandatory and cannt be avoid) alone account for more than 100 percent of our gdp where will you pay for the rest of budget
all the 4 things are mandatory u cannt not give these from budget
read this
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1kvzejc/comment/muensw4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1kvzejc/comment/muensw4/)
你說(shuō)得對(duì)，也不全對(duì)。
看看美國(guó)的債務(wù)與GDP之比非常高，所以他們現(xiàn)在能做的有限，正在削減對(duì)外援助。
目前，我們預(yù)算收入中約有37%僅用于償還債務(wù)。
單是利息支付 + 國(guó)防開(kāi)支 + 補(bǔ)貼 + 向各邦下放稅收（這是強(qiáng)制性的，無(wú)法避免）加起來(lái)就超過(guò)了我們預(yù)算的100%（注：原文此處為gdp，但從上下文及同作者先前評(píng)論看，應(yīng)指預(yù)算），你拿什么來(lái)支付預(yù)算的其余部分呢？
這四項(xiàng)都是強(qiáng)制性支出，你不能不從預(yù)算中撥款。
讀讀這個(gè)：
【鏈接】
unproblem_
Likes: 2
You make some solid points. I agree.
But Interest payments consume about 37-40% of tax revenues (not total budget receipts). High debt to gdp is concerning but not automatically bad. Most of our debt is domestic and in rupees.
One of the key concepts people usually misunderstand is countries grow through debt not investment. If there was no debt, there won't be any economic growth.
你提出了一些很有力的觀點(diǎn)，我同意。
但是利息支付約占稅收收入（而非預(yù)算總收入）的37-40%。高債務(wù)與GDP之比確實(shí)令人擔(dān)憂，但并非絕對(duì)是壞事。我們的大部分債務(wù)是國(guó)內(nèi)債務(wù)，并且是以盧比計(jì)價(jià)的。
人們通常誤解的一個(gè)關(guān)鍵概念是，國(guó)家是通過(guò)債務(wù)而非（僅僅通過(guò)）投資來(lái)實(shí)現(xiàn)增長(zhǎng)的。如果沒(méi)有債務(wù)，就不會(huì)有任何經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)。
One-Set8014
Likes: 0
the thing is we cannt afford to take debt more
we are not growing faster to offset the interest paid on debt
watch the earnings call of maruthi suzuki (larget car seller) (auto) or asian paints (largest paint seller) (construction sector) or previous nesle (fmcg) (these sectors gives us insigts into where we are heading to)
man even banks are feeling th heat due to non availablity for fund to lend as people are not saving
read
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcw7xl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcw7xl/)
maruthi ceo is publicly telling people are not getting rich faster to buy new cars.
our growth of car segment is just mere 2 percent
i.t sector which drives huge part of economy is down due to efficiency due to llms
the growth u have seen is due to covid revenge spending (add debt and emi to that)
問(wèn)題在于我們無(wú)法承擔(dān)更多債務(wù)了。
我們的增長(zhǎng)速度不足以抵消債務(wù)利息的支出。
看看馬魯?shù)佟も從荆ㄗ畲笃?chē)銷(xiāo)售商）（汽車(chē)行業(yè)）、亞洲涂料（最大涂料銷(xiāo)售商）（建筑行業(yè)）或者之前的雀巢（快速消費(fèi)品行業(yè)）的財(cái)報(bào)電話會(huì)議吧（這些行業(yè)能讓我們洞察未來(lái)的發(fā)展方向）。
天啊，由于人們不儲(chǔ)蓄，導(dǎo)致銀行缺乏可貸資金，連銀行都感受到了壓力。
讀讀這個(gè)：
【鏈接】
馬魯?shù)俚腃EO公開(kāi)表示，人們并沒(méi)有足夠快地富裕起來(lái)去購(gòu)買(mǎi)新車(chē)。
我們的汽車(chē)市場(chǎng)增長(zhǎng)率僅為2%。
作為經(jīng)濟(jì)重要驅(qū)動(dòng)力的信息技術(shù)產(chǎn)業(yè)，由于大語(yǔ)言模型帶來(lái)的效率提升而增長(zhǎng)放緩。
你們所看到的增長(zhǎng)是由于疫情后的報(bào)復(fù)性消費(fèi)（還要加上債務(wù)和分期付款的因素）。
leeringHobbit
Likes: 2
I read that domestic tourism is booming in India and nobody is missing foreign tourists.e.g. helicopter rides over Himalayas... five star hotels in ayodhya...Is all this spending done by the upper middle class?
https://theprint.in/ground-reports/the-curious-india-tourism-paradox-domestic-pilgrims-opt-for-luxury-foreigners-go-budget/2640086/
我了解到印度國(guó)內(nèi)旅游業(yè)正蓬勃發(fā)展，而且似乎并不依賴(lài)外國(guó)游客。例如，喜馬拉雅山脈的直升機(jī)觀光……阿約提亞的五星級(jí)酒店……這些消費(fèi)都是由中上層階級(jí)完成的嗎？
One-Set8014
Likes: 2
tourism is not booming dude more and more people are prefering forign places like thailand, veitnam and indonesia (we are loosing our own tourist to these countries) (dollar goes out of our country)
man a single city paris attracts more tourist than entire india combined
vietnam is more cheaper than goa
forigners are not prefering india due to law and order, overpriced hotels and hospitality
the thing is the tourists the article mentions is local tourism
we need international tourism as it brings more dollars. the top percentage spenders are moving out of india to abroad and top forign spenders are not comming to india.
local tourism doesnt do much to economy as these arepeople with less spening power dont spend much
哥們，旅游業(yè)并沒(méi)有在蓬勃發(fā)展，越來(lái)越多的人更喜歡去泰國(guó)、越南和印度尼西亞這樣的外國(guó)地方（我們自己的游客正在流失到這些國(guó)家）（美元也流出我們國(guó)家了）。
要知道，單單一個(gè)巴黎市吸引的游客就比整個(gè)印度加起來(lái)還要多。
越南比果阿邦更便宜。
由于治安、酒店價(jià)格過(guò)高以及服務(wù)招待問(wèn)題，外國(guó)人并不傾向于選擇印度。
關(guān)鍵在于，文章提到的游客是國(guó)內(nèi)游客。
我們需要國(guó)際旅游業(yè)，因?yàn)樗軒?lái)更多美元。消費(fèi)能力最強(qiáng)的那部分人正從印度流向國(guó)外，而國(guó)外的頂級(jí)消費(fèi)者卻不來(lái)印度。
國(guó)內(nèi)旅游對(duì)經(jīng)濟(jì)的貢獻(xiàn)不大，因?yàn)檫@些人的消費(fèi)能力較低，花銷(xiāo)不多。
leeringHobbit
Likes: 1
If you read the article you will see that even though foreign tourists are less than before, there is enough domestic demand that the new religious tourist hotspots are thriving and don't miss foreign tourists.
Indians are so rich that they are booking entire palace/hotels in Rajasthan for weddings and the Rajasthan palace/hotels are no longer worried/catering to foreign customers.
At the end of the day, the dollars are coming into the bank accounts of Indians who work for MNCs and then spend money at these religious tourism spots so the tourism sector still gets paid even if it's not in dollars.
如果你讀了那篇文章，你會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)盡管外國(guó)游客比以前少了，但國(guó)內(nèi)需求充足，新興的宗教旅游熱點(diǎn)地區(qū)依然繁榮，并不依賴(lài)外國(guó)游客。
印度人非常有錢(qián)，他們會(huì)為婚禮包下整個(gè)拉賈斯坦邦的宮殿/酒店，拉賈斯坦邦的宮殿/酒店也不再擔(dān)心或迎合外國(guó)顧客了。
說(shuō)到底，美元進(jìn)入了在跨國(guó)公司工作的印度人的銀行賬戶(hù)，然后他們?cè)僭谶@些宗教旅游景點(diǎn)消費(fèi)，所以即使不是以美元支付，旅游業(yè)仍然能獲得收入。
mildurajackaroo
Likes: 27
Actually, having recently been in India, I did notice that in general, people were fairly well off. Anyone earning more than 70k a month finds it easy to meet their day to day expenses.
This is kerala BTW, so my perspective would be a little off as there really isn't any poverty so to speak in Kerala.
Also, Western countries have serious cost of living considerations, that just shouldn't be ignored. I'm an Australian earning over $250k AUD in Sydney and honestly, I am struggling to get approved for a home loan to buy a house in a decidedly middle class suburb in sydney. A week of grocery shopping easily costs over $200. A lunch outside costs $60. Car loan costs $850 a month.
Theres hardly anything left over after monthly expenses.
What India truly lacks is safety and a clean environment. The pollution and dirt is off the charts.
This is something that cannot be measured in GDP terms.
實(shí)際上，我最近剛?cè)ミ^(guò)印度，我確實(shí)注意到，總體而言，人們生活得還算富裕。任何月收入超過(guò)7萬(wàn)（約人民幣5800元）的人都能輕松應(yīng)付日常開(kāi)銷(xiāo)。
順便說(shuō)一句，這是在喀拉拉邦，所以我的看法可能有些片面，因?yàn)榭羁梢哉f(shuō)幾乎沒(méi)有什么貧困。
此外，西方國(guó)家的生活成本問(wèn)題非常嚴(yán)重，這一點(diǎn)不容忽視。我是一個(gè)澳大利亞人，在悉尼年收入超過(guò)25萬(wàn)澳元，但老實(shí)說(shuō)，我為了在悉尼一個(gè)明確的中產(chǎn)階級(jí)郊區(qū)買(mǎi)房，申請(qǐng)住房貸款都步履維艱。一周的食品采購(gòu)輕易就超過(guò)200澳元。在外面吃頓午餐要60澳元。汽車(chē)貸款每月850澳元。
扣除每月開(kāi)銷(xiāo)后，幾乎所剩無(wú)幾。
印度真正缺乏的是安全和清潔的環(huán)境。污染和臟亂程度簡(jiǎn)直爆表。
這些是無(wú)法用GDP來(lái)衡量的。
LurkingTamilian
Likes: 3
I think the two things you state are at least partly related. Environmental regulation and better public infrastructure needs higher taxes which cause inflation. There are probably other problems specific to Sydney as well though.
我認(rèn)為你提到的這兩件事至少有部分關(guān)聯(lián)。環(huán)境監(jiān)管和更完善的公共基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施需要更高的稅收，而這又會(huì)導(dǎo)致通貨膨脹。不過(guò)，悉尼可能也有其自身特有的其他問(wèn)題。
One-Set8014
Likes: 3
if you are in top 1 percent (india1) what you say is true
its not true for rest of india
people are struggling to meet day to day expense due to inflation
savings is at all time low that banks are complaining of not getting enough funds for debt (and indian gov debt is also funded by banks) (on top of that people are withdrawing money for marriage)
look at the percentage of people earning 70k in india it is less as percentage of entire population
even the people earning 70k are living in metros where the cost of living is high (not as bad as other countries but still is very high) so the savings is less
the wage growth is negative if you include inflation
read
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcuaw9/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1l0alfn/comment/mvcuaw9/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1kvzejc/comment/muensw4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1kvzejc/comment/muensw4/)
如果你屬于頂層1%（印度富裕階層），那你說(shuō)的沒(méi)錯(cuò)。
但這并不適用于印度其余的大多數(shù)人。
由于通貨膨脹，人們?cè)谌粘ｉ_(kāi)銷(xiāo)上舉步維艱。
儲(chǔ)蓄率降至歷史最低點(diǎn)，以至于銀行抱怨沒(méi)有足夠的資金用于放貸（而且印度政府的債務(wù)也是由銀行資助的）（更糟的是，人們還在為婚禮支取存款）。
看看在印度月入7萬(wàn)的人口比例，在總?cè)丝谥姓急群苄 ?br /> 即使是那些月入7萬(wàn)的人，也大多生活在生活成本高昂的大城市（雖然不像其他國(guó)家那么糟糕，但仍然非常高），所以?xún)?chǔ)蓄很少。
如果計(jì)入通貨膨脹，工資增長(zhǎng)實(shí)際上是負(fù)的。
讀讀這個(gè)：
TheKnowledgeableOne
Likes: 2
70k a month puts you in almost the top 3-4% of the Indian population. You probably did not get exposed to what the average Indian household is like at all.
月入7萬(wàn)差不多能讓你進(jìn)入印度人口的前3-4%。你可能根本沒(méi)有接觸到普通印度家庭的真實(shí)生活狀況。
vp1593
Likes: 1
Being an Indian who lives abroad, I can anecdotally see the point you and some other redditors are making but I want to make sure I am not generalizing based on my personal experience. Yes, the cost-of-living in developed nations makes things harder ESPECIALLY when it comes to food! Travel is also more expensive and lack of public transport makes things even more difficult. Sydney in particular seems to have really high housing prices - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/1/as-australia-votes-a-housing-affordability-crisis-is-top-of-voters-minds
However, it looks like you are comparing the quality of life of middle income earners when in reality 70K is much higher than the median income of Indians which I believe is around 20K. It is hard for me to think of what living on that budget is like in India because I never have but I would imagine it’s not as cushy as I imagine the live of an average indian to be.
作為一個(gè)生活在國(guó)外的印度人，我從個(gè)人經(jīng)歷中大致能理解你和其他一些網(wǎng)友提出的觀點(diǎn)，但我想確保自己不是在以偏概全。是的，發(fā)達(dá)國(guó)家的生活成本確實(shí)讓生活更加艱難，尤其是在食物方面！出行也更貴，公共交通的缺乏更是雪上加霜。特別是悉尼，房?jī)r(jià)似乎真的很高
然而，你似乎在比較中等收入群體的生活質(zhì)量，而實(shí)際上，7萬(wàn)的月收入遠(yuǎn)高于印度收入中位數(shù)（我相信大約是2萬(wàn)盧比）。我很難想象在印度靠那樣的預(yù)算生活會(huì)是什么樣子，因?yàn)槲覐奈唇?jīng)歷過(guò)，但我猜想那并不像我所想象的普通印度人的生活那樣舒適。
Life_Machine_9694
Likes: 13
We don’t like reality - we are the 4 th greatest economy and thank you ambani/adani
You showed the rest of the world what an Indian is
We may have the highest number of poor people in the world
Who cares about the poor anyway - thx to modiji and ambani/adani - we are the 4 th largest economy ( look at ambani weddings - India has arrived
We will watch modiji doing jhumla and continue our education in WhatsApp university
我們不喜歡現(xiàn)實(shí)——我們是第四大經(jīng)濟(jì)體，感謝安巴尼/阿達(dá)尼！
你們向世界其他地方展示了印度人是什么樣的。
我們可能是世界上貧困人口最多的國(guó)家。
但誰(shuí)又在乎窮人呢——感謝莫迪吉和安巴尼/阿達(dá)尼——我們是第四大經(jīng)濟(jì)體（看看安巴尼的婚禮——印度崛起了?。?。
我們會(huì)看著莫迪表演他的“政治噱頭”，并繼續(xù)在“WhatsApp大學(xué)”接受我們的教育。
csureja
Likes: 3
Nifty 50 Market Cap ? 1,97,32,033 Cr.
That's not the whole economy. Yes a decent chunk. Ambani/adani are not the only ones that kept the india growth rate.
It's takes effort from fiscal policies to everyone in RBI to all the small businesses
Nifty 50指數(shù)的總市值是1,97,32,033億盧比。
那并非經(jīng)濟(jì)的全部，是的，是相當(dāng)大的一部分。維持印度增長(zhǎng)率的并不僅僅是安巴尼/阿達(dá)尼。
這需要從財(cái)政政策到印度儲(chǔ)備銀行的每一個(gè)人，再到所有小企業(yè)的共同努力。
One-Set8014
Likes: 1
nifty market cap has very less to do with our gdp (except maybe specialized sectors like construction where u need paint and steel) since our economy is mostly of unorganized sector
Nifty指數(shù)的市值與我們的GDP關(guān)系不大（或許除了像建筑這樣需要油漆和鋼鐵的特定行業(yè)），因?yàn)槲覀兊慕?jīng)濟(jì)主要由非組織部門(mén)構(gòu)成。
vp1593
Likes: 2
I don’t want to be too cynical either. While I don’t like having an inflated sense of our growth India has brought down extreme poverty from 16 % to 2.3 % and LMI poverty by ~35 % from 2011-2023 - https://www.business-standard.com/economy/news/india-lifted-171-mn-people-above-extreme-poverty-line-in-10-yrs-world-bank-125042501237_1.html Upwards & Onwards with humility!
我也不想過(guò)于憤世嫉俗。雖然我不喜歡對(duì)我們的增長(zhǎng)抱有不切實(shí)際的膨脹感，但從2011年到2023年，印度確實(shí)將極端貧困率從16%降至2.3%，中低收入貧困率降低了約35%
保持謙遜，繼續(xù)向上向前！
dashingfrenchie66
Likes: 2
So true! This blind worship of these oligarchs is nauseating . Do they pay your bills people? Most of their expensive purchases are routed through their companies & the dumb shareholder funds their gargantuan celebrations & asset purchases. While the common folk continue to battle crumbling infrastructure, life threatening pollution, astronomical medical costs & unbridled corruption. But we are the 4th largest economy in the world with no Qol to speak of
太對(duì)了！這種對(duì)寡頭們的盲目崇拜令人作嘔。他們會(huì)為你們付賬單嗎？他們大多數(shù)昂貴的采購(gòu)都是通過(guò)他們的公司進(jìn)行的，而愚蠢的股東們則為他們鋪張的慶?；顒?dòng)和資產(chǎn)購(gòu)買(mǎi)買(mǎi)單。與此同時(shí)，普通民眾卻在與搖搖欲墜的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施、危及生命的污染、天文數(shù)字般的醫(yī)療費(fèi)用和肆無(wú)忌憚的腐敗作斗爭(zhēng)。然而，我們卻是世界第四大經(jīng)濟(jì)體，生活質(zhì)量卻不值一提。
kryptobolt200528
Likes: 3
A 4 Trillion USD GDP for a country with a population of 1.4 billion is nothing to boast about...
對(duì)于一個(gè)擁有14億人口的國(guó)家來(lái)說(shuō)，4萬(wàn)億美元的GDP沒(méi)什么值得夸耀的……
bot_hunter101
Likes: 3
How dare someone celebrate a milestone.
We can celebrate some achievement while realising that a bunch of things need improving as well. Don't be a Debbie Downer
居然有人敢慶祝一個(gè)里程碑式的成就。
我們可以在慶祝某些成就的同時(shí)，也意識(shí)到還有很多事情需要改進(jìn)。別那么掃興嘛。
vp1593
Likes: 2
Don’t mean to be a downer. The discussion is only about getting a realistic look at where we are - in particular on various metrics that describe our economy in more detail.
我無(wú)意掃大家的興。討論只是為了更真實(shí)地審視我們所處的位置——特別是通過(guò)那些能更詳細(xì)描述我們經(jīng)濟(jì)狀況的各種指標(biāo)。
YellaKuttu
Likes: 2
I wish I could get that *inflated* Sensei! I really don't understand how can people even think of becoming prosperous when you see thousands if people on the road everyday who don't have enough to eat, wear and health acceess.
我倒希望我能有那種*被夸大的*繁榮感！我真的不明白，當(dāng)你每天在路上看到成千上萬(wàn)食不果腹、衣不蔽體、缺乏醫(yī)療保障的人們時(shí)，怎么還會(huì)有人覺(jué)得有什么“繁榮感”呢？
Creative_Place_905
Likes: 2
Our GDP per capita is also picking up slowly. So we are in the right direction. In 2014, our GDP per capita was 25 times lower than Japan, today the gap has reduced to 11. Ofcourse we have a long way to go. But we are in that direction.
我們的人均GDP也在緩慢回升。所以我們正朝著正確的方向前進(jìn)。2014年，我們的人均GDP比日本低25倍，如今差距已縮小到11倍。當(dāng)然，我們還有很長(zhǎng)的路要走，但我們正朝著那個(gè)方向努力。
_BrownPanther
Likes: 2
PER CAPITA. Incomes per capita, GDP per capita. Those are the variables to measure to assess prosperity. Rest all is gas.
人均！人均收入，人均GDP。這些才是衡量和評(píng)估繁榮程度的變量。其余的都是空談。
csureja
Likes: 3
Yes you are correct. You also have to take in account to get to high gdp per capita economic workforce needs to be more productive. The only paths there are
A) be rich cause all the colonization
B) become a developing economy then transition to first world such as China, eastern Europe.
As you can see going from path B is harder. Some eastern European countries got there faster cause of there geographic location and alliances
是的，你說(shuō)的沒(méi)錯(cuò)。你還必須考慮到，要實(shí)現(xiàn)高人均GDP，經(jīng)濟(jì)體的勞動(dòng)力生產(chǎn)率需要更高。只有以下幾條路徑：
A) 因?yàn)橹趁穸兊酶挥小?br /> B) 先成為發(fā)展中經(jīng)濟(jì)體，然后像中國(guó)、東歐那樣轉(zhuǎn)型為第一世界國(guó)家。
正如你所見(jiàn)，走B路徑更為艱難。一些東歐國(guó)家由于其地理位置和盟友關(guān)系而發(fā)展得更快。
Bakril
Likes: 2
>Indians eat and live well. That's not true in Western worlds, people can barely afford.
What kind of delusional take is this?
35.5% of children under five are stunted.
Undernourishment in India is 13.7%.
The Under-five mortality rate is 2.9%
More than 1/3rd of the world's Malnourished children live in India.
“印度人吃得好，住得好。而西方世界卻不是這樣，人們幾乎負(fù)擔(dān)不起生活支出?！?br /> 這是什么癡人說(shuō)夢(mèng)的觀點(diǎn)？
35.5%的五歲以下兒童發(fā)育遲緩。
印度營(yíng)養(yǎng)不良的人口比例為13.7%。
五歲以下兒童死亡率為2.9%。
世界上超過(guò)三分之一的營(yíng)養(yǎng)不良兒童生活在印度。
Dolund_Moody
Likes: 1
India is 3rd largest economy itw by PPP
按購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)計(jì)算，印度是世界第三大經(jīng)濟(jì)體。
One-Set8014
Likes: 1
not yet it will be on 2026 the report was given by world bank for next year not the current one
還沒(méi)到，要到2026年。世界銀行的報(bào)告是針對(duì)明年的，不是當(dāng)前的。
Dolund_Moody
Likes: 1
What ? India was 3rd largest itw by PPP since 2009 na ?
什么？按購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)計(jì)算，印度從2009年起不就已經(jīng)是世界第三大經(jīng)濟(jì)體了嗎？
goshdagny
Likes: 1
Are we well off than 20 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, that’s the metric if you want to ignore the GDP metrics.
如果你想忽略GDP指標(biāo)，那么衡量標(biāo)準(zhǔn)應(yīng)該是：我們現(xiàn)在是否比20年前、10年前、5年前更富裕？
AffectionateStorm106
Likes: 1
India disappoints everyone - optimists and pessimists
印度讓所有人失望——無(wú)論是樂(lè)觀主義者還是悲觀主義者。
vp1593
Likes: 3
Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems that while $100 goes further in India, that’s only advantageous if you’re earning in dollars and spending in a lower-cost country.
When looking at PPP you have to consider local currency, local wages, and local prices which are generally aligned. So if you compare something like the price of a meal relative to local salary in India vs Japan, PPP-adjusted comparisons show that purchasing power is still much higher in Japan.
如果我說(shuō)錯(cuò)了請(qǐng)糾正我，但似乎雖然100美元在印度更耐花，但這只有在你用美元賺錢(qián)并在一個(gè)生活成本較低的國(guó)家消費(fèi)時(shí)才算優(yōu)勢(shì)。
在看待購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)時(shí)，你必須考慮當(dāng)?shù)刎泿?、?dāng)?shù)毓べY和當(dāng)?shù)匚飪r(jià)，這些通常是相互匹配的。所以，如果你比較像印度和日本當(dāng)?shù)匾活D飯的價(jià)格相對(duì)于當(dāng)?shù)匦劫Y的水平，經(jīng)過(guò)PPP調(diào)整后的比較顯示，日本的購(gòu)買(mǎi)力仍然要高得多。
One-Set8014
Likes: 1
our ppp may be high but you will see a different picture if you try to buy raw materials required for construction or manufacturing.
steel prices are very high also check oil (due to monopoly)
since these are very high our entire industries are non competative in world stage
4 things in our budget has alone account for more than 100 percent of our budget (interest + defence + subsidies + money paid to states) so i guess we are not going to see a huge improvement going forward
we cannt afford to spend much with this gdp if we dont grow faster compared to interest paid on debt
我們的購(gòu)買(mǎi)力平價(jià)可能很高，但如果你嘗試購(gòu)買(mǎi)建筑或制造所需的原材料，你會(huì)看到另一番景象。
鋼材價(jià)格非常高，石油價(jià)格也是（由于壟斷）。
由于這些成本高昂，我們的整個(gè)產(chǎn)業(yè)在世界舞臺(tái)上都缺乏競(jìng)爭(zhēng)力。
我們預(yù)算中的四項(xiàng)開(kāi)支（利息+國(guó)防+補(bǔ)貼+向各邦撥款）加起來(lái)就超過(guò)了預(yù)算的100%，所以我猜我們未來(lái)不會(huì)看到巨大的改善。
如果我們的增長(zhǎng)速度趕不上債務(wù)利息的增長(zhǎng)，那么以我們目前的GDP水平，我們無(wú)法承擔(dān)太多支出。
Great-Resolve-3195
Likes: -25
Most of GDP comes from Karnataka because IT sector. I don't know why hindi speaking states take credit for it.
Kannada speaking people have very good work ethics and that's why the good GDP, not like UP & Bihar hindi states
大部分GDP來(lái)自卡納塔克邦，因?yàn)橛蠭T產(chǎn)業(yè)。我不知道為什么講印地語(yǔ)的邦要為此邀功。
講卡納達(dá)語(yǔ)的人有非常好的職業(yè)道德，所以GDP才高，不像北方邦和比哈爾邦那些講印地語(yǔ)的邦。
Money_Adagio6541
Likes: 7
Least obvious bait
你這引戰(zhàn)也太不明顯了。
Great-Resolve-3195
Likes: -10
Speak in Kannada!!!
說(shuō)卡納達(dá)語(yǔ)！??！
vp1593
Likes: 2
Not sure if you’re being a troll. While the contribution from certain states towards gdp is skewed, Karnataka isn’t highest on that list - it’s below Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu. UP and Gujarat are not much below it. That’s at least 2 hindi speaking states that are at par. https://www.forbesindia.com/article/explainers/gdp-of-indian-states-unx-territories/88157/1
不確定你是不是在故意引戰(zhàn)。雖然某些邦對(duì)GDP的貢獻(xiàn)確實(shí)不成比例，但卡納塔克邦并非名單上最高的——它排在馬哈拉施特拉邦和泰米爾納德邦之后。北方邦和古吉拉特邦也相差不遠(yuǎn)。這至少有兩個(gè)講印地語(yǔ)的邦與它水平相當(dāng)。
Great-Resolve-3195
Likes: -6
For your information, Kannada is oldest language compared to Tamil and Marathi
供你參考，與泰米爾語(yǔ)和馬拉地語(yǔ)相比，卡納達(dá)語(yǔ)是最古老的語(yǔ)言。
vp1593
Likes: 3
Kannada came 700 yrs after Tamil
卡納達(dá)語(yǔ)比泰米爾語(yǔ)晚了700年出現(xiàn)。