福特CEO吉姆·法利：中國的電動(dòng)汽車在成本、技術(shù)和質(zhì)量上“遠(yuǎn)超”西方

RickyMAustralia
Likes: 552
Just wait until the big beautiful bill knee caps ALL green emerging technology and sends the US back to the 1900s
 
等著瞧吧，等那個(gè)“大美麗”法案一出臺，所有新興的綠色技術(shù)都會被廢掉，美國將被打回20世紀(jì)初。
 
Jay_Dubbbs
Likes: 198
We’re going to the lead the world in coal powered vehicles baby!!!
 
“寶貝，我們將在燃煤汽車領(lǐng)域引領(lǐng)世界?。?！”
 
Jonsnoosnooze
Likes: 55
The steampunk crowd goes wheeeeeee!
 
蒸汽朋克愛好者們都興奮地尖叫起來啦！
 
Possible-Nectarine80
Likes: 11
Big, beautiful clean coal!
 
宏偉、壯麗、清潔的煤炭！
 
spidereater
Likes: 37
Also, when chinas fossil fuel expenses plummet and they are able to manufacture things even cheaper while also growing their standard of living.
Knee capping is absolutely correct. Knee injuries can sometimes be crippling for life. It will take generations for America to catch-up. And that’s only after they actually change course.
 
而且，當(dāng)中國的化石燃料開支驟降，他們能以更低的成本制造商品，同時(shí)還能提高生活水平時(shí)，（美國的處境就更糟了）。用“廢掉”這個(gè)詞來形容再恰當(dāng)不過了。膝蓋受傷有時(shí)會造成終生殘疾。美國需要幾代人的時(shí)間才能追趕上來，而且這還得是在他們真正改變方向之后。
 
SarcasticOptimist
Likes: 6
Yeah. They're regularly building nuclear and green energy plants and high speed rail while we're dealing with Nimby.
 
是啊。他們正在有條不紊地建設(shè)核電站、綠色能源工廠和高鐵，而我們還在跟“鄰避主義”扯皮。
 
CertainCertainties
Likes: 203
Kind of refreshing that Farley at least sees that Chinese EV manufacturing is a generation or two ahead of the West. Most of the time, people who have never seen or driven Chinese EVs dismiss them.
The other mistake that we make in the West is thinking that our legacy brands are competing with Chinese EV manufacturers. Nope, we lost. Chinese manufacturers are in an absolute dogfight with themselves to dominate the biggest EV market in the world, China. The extra profits from overseas markets allow them to continue the fight. With the US and Europe huddled behind tariff walls, those markets are fairly irrelevant to them and never get to see the best of the best.
 
福特的法利至少能看到中國電動(dòng)汽車制造業(yè)領(lǐng)先西方一到兩代，這還挺讓人欣慰的。大多數(shù)時(shí)候，那些從未見過或開過中國電動(dòng)汽車的人，對它們都嗤之以鼻。
我們在西方犯的另一個(gè)錯(cuò)誤是，以為我們的傳統(tǒng)汽車品牌在和中國的電動(dòng)汽車制造商競爭。不，我們已經(jīng)輸了。中國制造商們正在為了主宰全球最大的電動(dòng)汽車市場——中國市場——而進(jìn)行著激烈的內(nèi)斗。海外市場的額外利潤只是讓他們能繼續(xù)這場戰(zhàn)斗。在美國和歐洲都躲在關(guān)稅壁壘后面的情況下，這些市場對他們來說基本無關(guān)緊要，也因此永遠(yuǎn)看不到他們最頂尖的產(chǎn)品。
 
Tranbert5
Likes: 28
It reminds me of Alan Mulally who was CEO of Ford and drove a Lexus to work. The employees were shocked and some offended, but he straight up said, ‘I drive a Lexus because it’s the best car in the world. We can’t expect to build better cars if we can’t admit we are shit and there are better cars out there.’
 
這讓我想起了福特前CEO艾倫·穆拉利，他當(dāng)時(shí)開一輛雷克薩斯上班。員工們都驚呆了，有些人還覺得被冒犯了。但他直言不諱地說：‘我開雷克薩斯，因?yàn)樗鞘澜缟献詈玫能嚒Ｈ绻覀儾荒艹姓J(rèn)自己做得很爛，承認(rèn)外面有更好的車，那我們就別指望能造出更好的車?！?br />  
spidereater
Likes: 47
I’ve heard comments from people that visited China talking about the new cars. But it’s hard to really compare when the market is so different. I’m interested to see what happens when Americans visit Australia and see people pretty similar to them in a market with a mix of automakers and the best cars are all Chinese. At some point Europe and North America will be demanding these cars because the rest of the world is enjoying them.
 
我聽過去過中國的人談?wù)撨^那里的新車。但由于市場差異巨大，很難進(jìn)行真正的比較。我很有興趣看看，當(dāng)美國人訪問澳大利亞，看到和他們差不多的人生活在一個(gè)汽車制造商混雜、而最好的車卻都是中國車的市場里時(shí)，會發(fā)生什么。總有一天，歐洲和北美也會強(qiáng)烈要求引進(jìn)這些汽車，因?yàn)槭澜缙渌胤蕉荚谙硎芩鼈儭?br />  
r3volts
Likes: 17
Australia currently has over 100 EVs on the market from 40 different manufacturers.
They are really kicking off and I don't see it slowing down.
That said there is push back from the regulars, I read an article here the other day from some boomer focused bullshit outlet that was pointing out the "flaws" of EVs. It boiled down to them wearing out tires faster and the battery degradation boogey man.
 
澳大利亞市場上目前有來自40家不同制造商的超過100款電動(dòng)汽車。
電動(dòng)車市場真的開始起飛了，而且我看不到放緩的跡象。
話雖如此，也存在來自守舊派的阻力。我前幾天在這里讀到一篇來自某個(gè)?？印皨雰撼薄币淮某兜襟w的文章，指出了電動(dòng)汽車的“缺陷”。歸根結(jié)底就是兩條：輪胎磨損更快，以及電池衰減這個(gè)老掉牙的嚇人鬼話。
 
dilution
Likes: 36
You don't need to go that far. Come to the UK. MG, BYD, Volvo (yes owned by Geely) just to name a few. Heck I am seeing more Jaecoo lately and they just launched. Xpeng coming later this year.
 
你都不用跑那么遠(yuǎn)，來英國看看就行。名爵、比亞迪、沃爾沃（是的，吉利旗下），這還只是隨便舉幾個(gè)例子。天吶，我最近看到越來越多的奇瑞JAECOO，而它們才剛剛上市。小鵬也將在今年晚些時(shí)候登陸。
 
kobrons
Likes: 15
Yes, but all of these don't feel like a generation (or even a year) ahead of what the local oems produce.
 
是的，但所有這些車給人的感覺，也并沒有比本土廠商的產(chǎn)品領(lǐng)先一代（甚至一年）。
 
thrownjunk
Likes: 2
The best comparison we have in the U.S. is polestar. Which are nice, but feel behind our high end local makes (lucid/rivian).
I should rent a BYD next time I’m in Europe. I drive a VW ID, which is the same one that is everywhere in Europe.
 
在美國，我們能找到的最好的參照物就是極星了。車是不錯(cuò)，但感覺還是比我們本土的高端品牌（Lucid/Rivian）要落后。
下次去歐洲我應(yīng)該租一輛比亞迪開開。我自己開的是大眾ID系列，這款車在歐洲也隨處可見。
 
kobrons
Likes: 3
You can rent one but you'll probably be somewhat disappointed. The only byds that I've seen for rent were atto 2. And those are just bad EVs.
But the main problem is that we're constantly being told that the Chinese EVs are superior and cheap. And as soon as they arrive they are just mediocre. Oftentimes not even cheaper than local ones.
 
你可以租一輛，但可能會有點(diǎn)失望。我見過的能租到的比亞迪只有 Atto 2，那款車就是個(gè)很爛的電動(dòng)車。
但主要問題是，我們總是被告知中國的電動(dòng)汽車又好又便宜?？傻人鼈冋娴膩砹耍瑓s發(fā)現(xiàn)不過是平平無奇，很多時(shí)候甚至不比本土車便宜。
 
kobrons
Likes: 1
Idk about any Chinese ev. there are new ones that haven't made it over to the UK / EU and the range of cars you listed is quite diverse. However if it's like every other time when a hyped up Chinese ev arrived at our shores I'd say they are probably pretty much on par depending on what you're comparing.
 
我不了解所有的中國電動(dòng)車。有些新車還沒進(jìn)入英歐市場，而且你列出的那些車品牌也很多樣。不過，如果情況和以往每次被炒得火熱的中國電動(dòng)車登陸我們這里時(shí)一樣，那我得說，它們也就是旗鼓相當(dāng)?shù)乃?，具體取決于你拿什么來比。
 
SarcasticOptimist
Likes: 9
Top gear recently had a Chinese EV comparison. Some were copies. Others were competitive. Even with their euro bias they recognize they're a force to recognize like Japan was in the 90s.
https://youtu.be/AZYA7yyGCnM
 
Top Gear 最近做了一期中國電動(dòng)汽車的對比。有些是山寨貨，但另一些則很有競爭力。即便帶著歐洲中心主義的偏見，他們也承認(rèn)中國車是一股不可忽視的力量，就像90年代的日本車一樣。
 
ITuser999
Likes: 2
And they didn't even have access to the better cars from Nio, xiaomi, Zeekr or Avatr.
 
而且他們還沒能拿到蔚來、小米、極氪或者阿維塔這些更好的車。
 
lostinheadguy
Likes: 22
>Nope, we lost.
We didn't lose out of a lack of merit, we walked right through a brightly-lit doorway that said "you lose" as soon as Western companies agreed to form joint ventures to enter the market.
 
“我們已經(jīng)輸了?！?br /> 我們輸?shù)舨皇且驗(yàn)槲覀儧]本事，而是當(dāng)初西方公司同意通過成立合資企業(yè)來進(jìn)入市場時(shí)，我們是自己走進(jìn)了一扇明晃晃地寫著“你輸了”的大門。
 
6158675309
Likes: 35
Weren’t the joint ventures for ICE cars though? The EV manufacturing was grown within China. They made a conscious decision to abandon ICE, because they were too far behind.
They invested in where the market is moving and not where it was. Now, the government did also invest heavily to kick start the industry. But, that’s role of a government.
 
但那些合資企業(yè)不是針對燃油車的嗎？電動(dòng)汽車制造業(yè)是在中國本土發(fā)展起來的。他們有意識地決定放棄燃油車，因?yàn)樗麄冊谀莻€(gè)領(lǐng)域落后太多了。
他們投資的是市場的未來方向，而不是過去。當(dāng)然，政府也確實(shí)投入了巨資來啟動(dòng)這個(gè)產(chǎn)業(yè)。但，這本就是政府的職責(zé)。
 
lostinheadguy
Likes: 6
The JVs aren't the reason why China makes good EVs, but they are why China now makes good **cars.**
A crappy car with really good EV range and charging is still a crappy car. And China was putting out some **very** crappy cars back before the Western OEMs formed the JVs to enter the market.
 
合資企業(yè)不是中國能造出好電動(dòng)車的原因，但它們是中國現(xiàn)在能造出好**汽車**的原因。
一輛續(xù)航和充電性能很棒的爛車，終究還是一輛爛車。而在西方車企組建合資公司進(jìn)入市場之前，中國造出來的可都是些**非常**爛的車。
 
6158675309
Likes: 1
Yup, good point. My understanding is the approach they took was to learn but improve. I saw recently that Audi is bringing in Chinese experts to automate their manufacturing processes.
 
是的，說得好。我的理解是，他們采取的策略是先學(xué)習(xí)再改進(jìn)。我最近看到奧迪正在引進(jìn)中國專家來幫助他們實(shí)現(xiàn)制造流程的自動(dòng)化。
 
SilentHuntah
Likes: 5
> as soon as Western companies agreed to form joint ventures to enter the market.
With ICE cars, right? I hope you understand that Chinese EVs don't have anything in the west to copy anymore? This is a case where the student not only learned from the master, but surpassed him ages ago.
 
“當(dāng)初西方公司同意通過成立合資企業(yè)來進(jìn)入市場時(shí)”
是燃油車的合資企業(yè)，對吧？我希望你明白，中國的電動(dòng)汽車在西方已經(jīng)沒什么可以抄的了。這就是一個(gè)青出于藍(lán)而勝于藍(lán)，而且是早已超越的例子。
 
Kantei
Likes: 4
Other replies are addressing this, but you're talking about two entirely different categories of technology.
China's EV dominance did not start with ICE joint ventures, it started with them recognizing batteries and renewables as the technology of the future ahead of everyone else.
It was their own developments in battery technology that enabled their EV ascent, not their foray into ICE cars.
 
其他回復(fù)已經(jīng)提到了，但你說的完全是兩個(gè)不同領(lǐng)域的技術(shù)。
中國在電動(dòng)汽車領(lǐng)域的統(tǒng)治地位并非始于燃油車的合資企業(yè)，而是始于他們比所有人都更早地認(rèn)識到電池和可再生能源是未來的技術(shù)。
是他們自身在電池技術(shù)上的發(fā)展推動(dòng)了他們在電動(dòng)汽車領(lǐng)域的崛起，而不是他們在燃油車領(lǐng)域的嘗試。
 
AustinLurkerDude
Likes: 6
The issues why Chinese EVs are better is because of politics in ice companies and terrible tech and UI. It's not a costs issue, China also has the battery tech.
Currently only Rivian, Lucid, Volvo and Tesla are shipping their cars with decent car computers for adas. Tesla inhouse and others Nvidia.
The politics in ice companies is extremely disruptive, in USA and Japan. Why is Rivian ahead of ice companies? Because they're not getting sabotaged by internal teams or dealerships.
If you spent 20 years in industry building expertise in ice powertrain and built a team there would you give it all up?
There's no good answer for the dinosaur companies but continue until they can't
 
中國電動(dòng)汽車之所以更好，是因?yàn)閭鹘y(tǒng)燃油車公司的內(nèi)部政治以及糟糕的技術(shù)和用戶界面（UI）。這不只是成本問題，中國還掌握了電池技術(shù)。
目前只有 Rivian、Lucid、沃爾沃和特斯拉在出廠車輛中為輔助駕駛系統(tǒng)配備了像樣的車載電腦。特斯拉用自研的，其他幾家用英偉達(dá)的。
傳統(tǒng)燃油車公司的內(nèi)部政治極具破壞性，在美國和日本都是如此。為什么 Rivian 能領(lǐng)先于燃油車公司？因?yàn)樗麄儾粫粌?nèi)部團(tuán)隊(duì)或經(jīng)銷商拖后腿。
如果你花了20年在行業(yè)內(nèi)積累燃油動(dòng)力總成的專業(yè)知識，并建立了一支團(tuán)隊(duì)，你會愿意放棄這一切嗎？
對于這些恐龍公司來說，除了硬撐到撐不下去那天，沒有別的出路。
 
VintageSin
Likes: 14
This is literally just tesla stumping for the sake of tesla stumping.
You complain about Chinese EVs being inefficient and that their charge times are causing other issues.
Then we look at tesla, with a mid charging curve that's already beaten by non Chinese EVs. With a supercharger network not able to keep up with the mass expansion of the nacs standard being used on non tesla vehicles. And still not able to deliver an economy product that's been promised for a decade.
We want to really bring up rivian or lucid? Both who are basically boutique brands at this time.
No one is saying Chinese EVs are perfect or the end all be all. What people are saying is the western manufacturers are no where near the generation of ev China is at. ICE vehicles have the same cycle, this has nothing to do with the technology advancements, it has to do how are we moving the owner base from their ICE to and EV and creating mass adoption.
Tesla opened that door. Then they stalled.
 
這純粹就是為了吹特斯拉而吹特斯拉。
你抱怨中國電動(dòng)汽車效率低，充電時(shí)間長導(dǎo)致其他問題。
那我們來看看特斯拉，一個(gè)中規(guī)中矩的充電曲線，早就被非中國的電動(dòng)汽車超越了。它的超充網(wǎng)絡(luò)也跟不上 NACS 標(biāo)準(zhǔn)在非特斯拉車輛上的大規(guī)模推廣。而且，承諾了十年的廉價(jià)車型至今仍未兌現(xiàn)。
真要拿 Rivian 或 Lucid 來說事嗎？這兩個(gè)目前基本都還是小眾精品品牌。
沒人說中國電動(dòng)汽車是完美的或者終極解決方案。大家說的是，西方制造商在技術(shù)代差上遠(yuǎn)不及中國。燃油車也有同樣的發(fā)展周期，這與技術(shù)進(jìn)步無關(guān)，而在于我們?nèi)绾螌⑷加蛙囍鬓D(zhuǎn)化成電動(dòng)車主，并實(shí)現(xiàn)大規(guī)模普及。
特斯拉打開了這扇門，然后就停滯不前了。
 
bigdipboy
Likes: 5
Instead of progressing Elon just started removing parts from the cars and calling it innovation.
 
埃隆非但沒有進(jìn)步，反而開始從車上減配，還管那叫創(chuàng)新。
 
PSUVB
Likes: 4
Whatever you want to say about Tesla is fine but the fact is they sell cars competitively in China.
People aren’t buying them out of the goodness of their heart.
 
不管你怎么說特斯拉，事實(shí)是他們的車在中國賣得很有競爭力。
人們買他們的車可不是出于善心。
 
nexus22nexus55
Likes: 2
Yeah, they're buying them because the older generation still has it stuck in their heads that foreign automatically = superior and because Tesla has brand cachet.
The younger generation are buying domestic brands and as they gain popularity and positive feedback spreads through word of mouth, it's pretty much game over for Tesla.
Tesla is stagnating and not innovating. Their models are a decade+ old with only minor facelifts. Their interiors are boring and low rent (I should know, I own a '23 MY).
Chinese car makers can iterate much faster and there are dozens of them (which might cannibalize sales amongst themselves, but it still means that they are innovating at a ferocious pace). They are as good as Tesla, if not better, and priced lower. It really boggles the mind that Tesla sells as well as they do in China given all of this.
 
是啊，他們買特斯拉是因?yàn)槔弦惠吶四X子里還固守著“外國貨=高級貨”的觀念，也因?yàn)樘厮估衅放乒猸h(huán)。
年輕一代都在買國產(chǎn)品牌，隨著這些品牌越來越受歡迎，口碑也越來越好，特斯拉基本就沒戲了。
特斯拉正在停滯不前，毫無創(chuàng)新。它的車型都快十年了，只有些小改款。內(nèi)飾無聊又廉價(jià)（我應(yīng)該有發(fā)言權(quán)，我有一輛23款的Model Y）。
中國的汽車制造商迭代速度快得多，而且有幾十家（雖然他們之間可能會內(nèi)耗，但這仍然意味著他們在以驚人的速度創(chuàng)新）。他們的產(chǎn)品和特斯拉一樣好，甚至更好，價(jià)格還更低?？紤]到這一切，特斯拉在中國還能賣得這么好，真是令人費(fèi)解。
 
VintageSin
Likes: 4
People aren't buying more teslas in China to an extent that their presence there is notable.
 
人們在中國購買特斯拉的數(shù)量并沒有多到讓它的存在感很強(qiáng)的地步。
 
PSUVB
Likes: 3
It’s 10% of the EV market. 170k cars sold last year.
It’s a decent amount considering how crowded the market is.
Tesla is the only foreign EV competitor in China.
 
它占據(jù)了電動(dòng)汽車市場10%的份額，去年賣了17萬輛。
考慮到市場有多擁擠，這個(gè)數(shù)量相當(dāng)可觀了。
特斯拉是中國市場上唯一有競爭力的外國電動(dòng)汽車品牌。
 
rtb001
Likes: 3
And yet without any political issues affecting their sales, since the Chinese don't really care about illegals it, Tesla sales are still falling YoY in China even when the overall EV market continues to grow briskly.
There is only one possible reason for this dichotomy, which is that Tesla's products are falling behind competing products from domestic Chinese EV makers.
 
然而，在沒有任何政治問題影響其銷量的情況下（因?yàn)橹袊瞬⒉辉诤跄切┢剖拢?，即便整個(gè)電動(dòng)汽車市場仍在快速增長，特斯拉在中國的銷量卻在同比下降。
這種反差背后只可能有一個(gè)原因：特斯拉的產(chǎn)品已經(jīng)落后于中國本土電動(dòng)汽車制造商的競品了。
 
SharkBaitDLS
Likes: 27
They're ahead of Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid too.
 
他們也領(lǐng)先于特斯拉、Rivian和Lucid。
 
jaqueh
Likes: -18
No they’re not. Byd seems to be a bunch of smoke (literally) and mirrors
 
不，他們沒有。比亞迪在我看來就是一堆花架子和騙術(shù)，而且還真的會冒煙（字面意思）。
 
TownBird1
Likes: 13
Sorry.. I've been.. their base model is equal to a nice mid range Lexus for the price of an entry level Toyota. The options of EV types within China alone is over 200 domestic companies. The roll out of 10 min chargers and soon faster 5 min charging is essentially coming.
This video is from a little over 1 year ago; [https://www.tiktok.com/@fcohen/video/7312417846120697130?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@fcohen/video/7312417846120697130?lang=en)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\\\\_of\\\\_automobile\\\\_manufacturers\\\\_of\\\\_China#Electric\\\\_vehicle\\\\_manufacturers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacturers_of_China#Electric_vehicle_manufacturers)
 
抱歉…我去過中國…他們的基礎(chǔ)款車型，賣著入門級豐田的價(jià)格，卻有著中檔雷克薩斯的品質(zhì)。單單在中國國內(nèi)，就有超過200家本土公司提供各種類型的電動(dòng)汽車。10分鐘快充正在鋪開，很快5分鐘快充也基本要來了。
這個(gè)視頻是一年多以前的：[鏈接]
[維基百科鏈接]
 
RuggedHank
Likes: 5
Tesla has only launched one new vehicle in the last six years, and it flopped. Meanwhile, the Model S and X still run on platforms from the late 2000s with just refresh after refreshes. The Model 3 and Y seem to be following the same path, riding on a platform that’s now over seven years old, with only mild upxes. Still no new vehicle announced from Tesla.
 
過去六年，特斯拉只推出了一款新車，還搞砸了。與此同時(shí)，Model S和X仍在使用2000年代末期的平臺，只是不斷地小修小補(bǔ)。Model 3和Y似乎也在走同樣的路，在一個(gè)已經(jīng)超過七年的平臺上，只做些微小的更新。至今特斯拉也沒有發(fā)布任何新車的消息。
 
Possible-Nectarine80
Likes: 82
I read that Chinese gov't invested about $7 billion a year for the past 2 decades in EV and auto R&D. Tough to compete against that. But think about it. Instead of spending $2 trillion dollars invading Iraq and Afghanistan, you put that money into R&D for medicine, renewable energy, recycling tech and better construction design and efficiencies, etc.
So, here we are. Way behind the Chinese in just about everything but way ahead in stupid.
 
我看到有文章說，過去20年，中國政府每年在電動(dòng)汽車和汽車研發(fā)上投資約70億美元。這很難與之抗衡。但你想想看，如果我們不花2萬億美元去入侵伊拉克和阿富汗，而是把那些錢投入到醫(yī)藥、可再生能源、回收技術(shù)、更優(yōu)的建筑設(shè)計(jì)和效率等領(lǐng)域的研發(fā)……
結(jié)果就是現(xiàn)在這樣。我們在幾乎所有方面都遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)落后于中國，但在犯傻方面卻遙遙領(lǐng)先。
 
FatFish44
Likes: 20
It’s even more infuriating to learn that we could afford both. We just didn’t because… “drill baby drill” is catchy.
 
更氣人的是，我們本來兩樣都能負(fù)擔(dān)得起。我們之所以沒那么做，是因?yàn)椤般@！寶貝！鉆！”這句口號朗朗上口。
 
Content-Fudge489
Likes: 31
We are definitely way way way ahead in stupid. Even our space program is being dismantled while China is looking at having moon bases.
 
我們在犯傻方面絕對是遙遙遙遙領(lǐng)先。當(dāng)中國在計(jì)劃建立月球基地的時(shí)候，我們的太空計(jì)劃甚至都在被拆解。
 
bigdipboy
Likes: 10
Bush v gore was really where the country jumped off a cliff.
 
布什對戈?duì)柲谴芜x舉，是這個(gè)國家墜下懸崖的真正起點(diǎn)。
 
Lycid
Likes: 3
Nah Regan. Regan made "greed is good" possible and got rich baron lords high off their own supply and sick with dragon sickness. Everything wrong with how corporate America and our capitalist system works in the modern era is exactly a result of Regan's policies. No single man has done so much to destroy the future of a nation by letting the worst people on earth not only having such unfettered power + wealth but actively rewarding them. It's done more than just ruin this country from a policy standpoint, it's created a new culture of sociopathic bros who now have money, power and a voice, infecting all other aspects of American culture.
 
不，是里根。里根讓“貪婪是好事”成為可能，讓那些富有的權(quán)貴們吸自己“產(chǎn)品”吸上了頭，患上了巨龍?。ㄊ刎?cái)如命）。當(dāng)今美國企業(yè)界和我們資本主義體系運(yùn)作中的所有問題，都正是里根政策的直接后果。沒有哪個(gè)人能像他一樣，通過讓地球上最壞的人不僅擁有不受約束的權(quán)力和財(cái)富，還積極地獎(jiǎng)勵(lì)他們，從而如此嚴(yán)重地摧毀了一個(gè)國家的未來。這不僅僅是從政策角度毀了這個(gè)國家，它還創(chuàng)造了一種新的反社會兄弟會文化，這些人現(xiàn)在有了錢、權(quán)力和話語權(quán)，并毒害了美國文化的所有其他方面。
 
rtb001
Likes: 4
Well China is building those as well, but it isn't gonna cost them 7B to put a carrier in the water. For exactly the same reason their EVs are so cheap. China is THE manufacturing superpower in the world and nobody else even comes close.
Edit: For instance the Burke Flight III guided missile destroyers which is the backbone of the US navy is now estimated to cost in excess of 2.5 billion per hull, while the Chinese equivalent, their new Type 052D destroyer, costs around 500-600 million per boat. Even their massive 055 Destroyer, widely considered to be the most advanced guided missile cruiser in the world, only runs the PLA about 1 billion per hull.
 
嗯，中國也在造那些（指航母），但他們造一艘航母下水可花不了70億美元。原因和他們的電動(dòng)汽車那么便宜完全一樣。中國是世界上的制造業(yè)超級大國，其他國家根本沒法比。
編輯：舉個(gè)例子，作為美國海軍中堅(jiān)力量的伯克III級導(dǎo)彈驅(qū)逐艦，現(xiàn)在每艘的造價(jià)估計(jì)超過25億美元，而中國的同類產(chǎn)品，新型052D型驅(qū)逐艦，每艘成本約5-6億美元。即使是他們的大型055型驅(qū)逐艦，被廣泛認(rèn)為是世界上最先進(jìn)的導(dǎo)彈巡洋艦，解放軍的采購成本也僅為每艘約10億美元。
 
Googgodno
Likes: 2
> Well China is building those as well, but it isn't gonna cost them 7B to put a carrier in the water
Respectfully, everyone can build weapons, but until they are battle tested, it is still suspect.
 
“中國也在造那些，但他們造一艘航母下水可花不了70億美元”
恕我直言，誰都能造武器，但在經(jīng)過實(shí)戰(zhàn)檢驗(yàn)之前，其性能都是值得懷疑的。
 
rtb001
Likes: 12
Easily the worst/cheapest plane that China currently fields made pretty short work of at least one 4.5 gen Rafale fighter recently. Granted some of that has to do with general competency issues of the Indian air force, but still shows their hardware is more than capable.
 
最近，中國現(xiàn)役最差/最便宜的飛機(jī)，輕而易舉地搞定了至少一架4.5代陣風(fēng)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。當(dāng)然，這其中一部分原因與印度空軍的綜合能力問題有關(guān)，但仍然表明他們的硬件是綽綽有余的。
 
lexcyn
Likes: 22
There's a reason the OEMs in the US lobby HARD to ensure the 100%+ tariff on Chinese EVs stays in place. The other aspect here is the Chinese government essentially takes out loss leading investments in infrastructure like charging, critical minerals etc so that the industry can be super-efficient. Do you honestly think the government would fund programs like that? I mean I guess they WERE but not any more.
 
美國的汽車制造商們拼命游說，以確保對中國電動(dòng)汽車征收100%以上的關(guān)稅，這是有原因的。另一方面，中國政府實(shí)質(zhì)上是在對充電、關(guān)鍵礦產(chǎn)等基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施進(jìn)行虧本的先期投資，以便整個(gè)產(chǎn)業(yè)能實(shí)現(xiàn)超高效率。你真覺得我們的政府會資助那樣的項(xiàng)目嗎？我的意思是，我想他們曾經(jīng)會，但現(xiàn)在不會了。
 
PilotKnob
Likes: 6
Good thing he doesn't have to worry about those amazing yet pesky Chinese cars here in the good 'ol U.S. of A.
Thank goodness we'll never ever see the best EVs in the world here, eh boys?!
 
好事啊，他（福特CEO）就不用在咱們偉大的美利堅(jiān)合眾國擔(dān)心那些既牛X又討厭的中國車了。
謝天謝地，我們永遠(yuǎn)也別想在這里看到世界上最好的電動(dòng)汽車，對吧，伙計(jì)們？！
 
boomerhs77
Likes: 11
Yup. US will be left in the dust at this rate because the country is taken over by the drill baby drill crowd.
 
是的。照這個(gè)速度，美國會被甩在后面吃灰，因?yàn)檫@個(gè)國家已經(jīng)被那群高喊“鉆！寶貝！鉆！”的人占領(lǐng)了。
 
fooknprawn
Likes: 6
An you wonder why the US and Canadian governments have put massive tariffs on Chinese EVs... It's protectionism for the big three (maybe 4 if you count Tesla who'd suffer tremendously) who'd be wiped out
 
你還在奇怪為什么美國和加拿大政府要對中國電動(dòng)汽車征收高額關(guān)稅……這就是為了保護(hù)三大車企（如果算上同樣會遭受重創(chuàng)的特斯拉，那就是四大）的貿(mào)易保護(hù)主義，否則他們都會被淘汰出局。
 
eric_ts
Likes: 4
China’s top auto manufacturers use a process that is far superior to legacy manufacturers for designing, engineering, and most importantly manufacturing vehicles. The way legacy manufacturers (I don’t say “Western” because Japanese and Korean automakers are mostly making the same mistakes) have a model lifecycle that is obsolete in the 21st Century, dependent on static tooling and long term manufacturing of the same product, disallowing engineering changes once the final design is baked in. In modern manufacturing the tooling is dynamic and the design is never baked in over the vehicle’s lifecycle, allowing for continuous improvements. By the time a legacy manufacturer has a successful vehicle copied (which takes several years at the fastest) they are now that many years behind the curve. It will probably be institutionally impossible to convert most legacy carmakers to dynamic production processes. It is incompatible with the way they are managed on every level.
 
中國頂級的汽車制造商在設(shè)計(jì)、工程，以及最重要的車輛制造方面，使用著遠(yuǎn)超傳統(tǒng)制造商的流程。傳統(tǒng)制造商（我不說“西方”，因?yàn)槿毡竞晚n國車企也大多在犯同樣的錯(cuò)誤）的車型生命周期在21世紀(jì)已經(jīng)過時(shí)了，它依賴于固定的生產(chǎn)工具和對同一產(chǎn)品的長期生產(chǎn)，一旦最終設(shè)計(jì)敲定就不允許進(jìn)行工程上的更改。而在現(xiàn)代制造業(yè)中，生產(chǎn)工具是動(dòng)態(tài)的，設(shè)計(jì)在車輛的整個(gè)生命周期中也從未被“固化”，從而可以持續(xù)改進(jìn)。等到傳統(tǒng)制造商花幾年時(shí)間（最快也要幾年）復(fù)制出一款成功的車型時(shí)，他們已經(jīng)落后好幾年了。對于大多數(shù)傳統(tǒng)車企來說，要轉(zhuǎn)換到動(dòng)態(tài)生產(chǎn)流程，在制度上可能是不可能的。這與他們各個(gè)層級的管理方式都不兼容。
 
rockalyte
Likes: 2
They’ve stolen all our tech much of it from Tesla, they also support their industries and will prevent failure of such and export the products at lower costs. This vs the US which shits on science in favor of corporations raiding everything, fucking over workers, forcing new technologies to fail and bringing back coal. China outnumbers the us in production capacity, engineers, educated masses all like 20-1. The US has been giving up world trade and handing it all along with its benefits to China. We will lose the world stage and definitely the next major war.
 
他們偷了我們所有的技術(shù)，很多都是從特斯拉偷的。他們還扶持自己的產(chǎn)業(yè)，防止其失敗，并以更低的成本出口產(chǎn)品。反觀美國，為了讓大公司掠奪一切而蔑視科學(xué)，壓榨工人，迫使新技術(shù)失敗，還想重拾煤炭。中國在產(chǎn)能、工程師、受教育人口等方面都以大約20比1的優(yōu)勢碾壓美國。美國一直在放棄世界貿(mào)易，并將其連同所有好處一并拱手讓給中國。我們將失去世界舞臺的地位，也必將輸?shù)粝乱粓龃髴?zhàn)。
 
Pasivite
Likes: 1
China is the center of EV innovation and technology. The worry that China is *"stealing"* Tesla's 2002 technology is completely laughable.
 
中國是電動(dòng)汽車創(chuàng)新和技術(shù)的中心。擔(dān)心中國在*“偷竊”*特斯拉2002年的技術(shù)，這種想法簡直可笑至極。